ny.sky.scraper on NBR = mark @ Killernotebooks

[Justin@XoticPC]

This is an off topic post regarding some information I would like to share. This is regarding a user on notebook review named ny.sky.scraper (http://forum.notebookreview.com/member.php?u=186794). This user has had a interesting nature to his posts.

On to who this poster really is. I will present the facts below.

This user originally came to light in this thread in the OCZ forum on notebook review (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=298784). This was his first post to which he came in with the following: (same as the image below)

Originally Posted by ny.sky.scraper
I tried to call the tech support listed on your website 1-(877) 228-0228 three times in the last 45 minutes.
The phone was answered, "Thank you for calling USA Tech Support (http://24-7usatechsupport.com/contact.html), all of our technicians are currently busy at the moment, but if you leave your name number and a brief description, we'll be more than happy to return your call." The link to this post is here (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3919643&postcount=67). However it will pull up a blank page as this user has since deleted his post. Let me provide a little history that led up to this deletion. Mark had been calling our office trying to get me to raise our pricing structure on the new OCZ Notebook similar to his (to which we ultimately declined). During this call I advised Mark I was aware of this account and other accounts he is using to boost his reputation and to criticize other sellers on Notebookreview. Almost immediately after this call this post that ny.sky.scraper (http://forum.notebookreview.com/member.php?u=186794) made was deleted. If you review the link above that goes to a dead page you will see it references post count #67. Now as you will see in post #68 here (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3919879&postcount=68)where this post is quoted by one of the admins at Notebookreview named Greg, where you will see ny.sky.scraper (http://forum.notebookreview.com/member.php?u=186794) 's post:

http://www.xoticpc.com/k/ny.skypost.jpg

After reviewing this post from ny.sky.scraper (http://forum.notebookreview.com/member.php?u=186794) that he contacted our support group I decided to check the logs and see who was calling in. Pulling up our logs there was only one caller calling this day. The caller received our supports voicemail on the first call but called back and spoke to a representative in our support group named "Joe".

Here is a log from the VOIP server showing the call, length of the call and most importantly the caller ID of the caller.

2008-09-14 09:17:19
SIP/208.70...
920-968-xxxx (censored for privacy)
ANSWERED
01:17 Duration (we have the call recorded in a .wav file)

I called the number back and guess who answered the phone - - mark mueller from Killernotebooks.

Just wanted to bring the facts forward on this sock puppet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29) account.

The facts presented speak for themselves.

[Justin_W@XoticPC]

We had a error on our forums and this thread (and another thread in this section) and its replies were deleted including the original post, here are the replies that were retrieved from back up and the original above post:

-
And here I thought the politicians were the only ones doing the smearing.

I can honestly say that, even though there may be some bad reviews of Xotic in some places, the amount that other resellers can generate by smearing is nowhere NEAR the positive feedback of the actual customers. So, in reality, Mark is wasting his time.

Now, I'm not saying that Killernotebooks is a bad company for doing this. I haven't even attemted to do business with them yet. But allowing this kind of behavior is extremely irresponsible on their part, and it will probably affect my opinion of them in the future. Basically, they can be assured that I will remember this, and thank you for bringing it to my attention.

That being said, they're probably not the only ones out to get you guys here at Xotic, which is why I don't trust any reviews on the major review sties. I prefer to either ask someone I know, or, in the case of a relatively unknown brandname like Xotic, to do my research in forums that I already know of and trust (for instance, this one)

Bottom line: Mark @ killernotebooks - While I am in no way a customer of your company, and have nothing to say about you personally, I regard your actions as unbelievably immature and completely irresponsible, and you can bet on me discouraging any and all people I know from buying from killernotebooks because of this. It would be one thing if you were promoting your computers in another reseller's forums, but to smear a business' name by way of an alias online or by phone is completely unethical and downright outrageous. You won't be hearing from me any time soon.

Justin - I admire you for bringing this to my attention, and I hope that you can provide these forums with more information like this. Behind the scenes work from resellers, like this, is completely invisible to the average customer, and so I, and many others, probably would never have known about this had you not brought it up, so thank you.

well said Zatara,

@Justin- someone once said on the forums that 'money talks' which is what we have all discovered. We are spending our money here! and if you believe most reviews out there, we will continue to spend our money HERE!!!


Yikes, how childish...

Thank you for sharing.

Ow my eyes, reading that makes me want to gouge them out, hearing it would have been worse.

I wish I could have been there when you called him.

[Jrock15]

thank you for salvaging our replies! Although I would have been more than happy to post it again.

[Aeris]

Thanks for sharing this information, Justin, I think that it is actually pathetic to do sock-puppet'ing, once again, thanks for sharing this information, after all, truth is always discovered, early or late. :)

[Morphy]

wowowowow
I'm considering the OCZ as a DTR among others and with that the resellers offering this notebook.
KN was one them.....operative word = was.
It's not so much the actual smear campaign that's bothersome but it shows unprofesionalism.

[denira]

This is very immature. Thank you for posting this. I noticed someone posted on his shady conduct on nbr earlier this summer and arose my suspicions: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3641865&postcount=38 (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3641865&postcount=38)



Just a few (said with some sarcasm, ie "few" with index and middle fingers doing bunny ear motions) details to toss into this discussion. I'm sure I might get flamed by a fanboy or something for pointing stuff like this out... but... I've done some exploring and am a little concerned about the business in question. It's long, but it's not all me talking, lots of quoting stuff that is interesting, almost all (except personal correspondence with them) that you can find yourself if you so choose...

Anyone ever notice on guruofgaming that... oh, Mark happens to be user#4 for the whole site... hmm, he just happened to sign on that very first moment, huh?

User 1... doesn't exist... of users 2-10, 11, 12... at 16 now, just for fun, anyway, almost all=likely bogus accounts or "I was told to join so here, I joined or something"... because hey, they have never posted or... posted once or twice and never again since 2006...

The only other one of the very-early-users (along with most of the users, most of the posts, etc) that has been supposedly quite active... well, threads like "prospective buyers READ THiS" kind of like our "read this before posting" FAQ... ooh, what does the active one say? The one that... well, just happened to sign on right at the same time as Mark... conveniently... "I thank my lucky stars to have found Killer Notebooks when I did.
The Executioner exceeded my expectations and they were pretty high up there. Mark has definitely raised the bar.
I've been spoiled ..." OMFG how transparent is this?

next thread? K|N website:
"How about a video on the site?

I just want to see a picture! Mark, it is picture time! Just one.
Yes, it is a little painful at first but you can do it.
How can your groupies (me) swoon and stalk ..."

next, oh, a problem arises and someone (one of many someones, I've noticed) isn't getting calls answered or returned... not until they go to guruforgaming, where obviously, this pimpmykillernotebook site is the way to get the service, oftentimes with loads of interesting excuses, I'm finding, for why the calls didn't go through... anyway, fanboy's response?

"Yeah, there has to be some sort of e-mail issue going on. Mark is usually pretty fast to respond to e-mails.
So make sure you check that junk mail and your filters like FirebornX suggested."

Then talk of a K|N wikipedia...

and more praise for the site...

and "Nope, no PS3 for me....yet.
It has been quite awhile since I bought a console.
My gaming time has dwindled. Crying or Very sad

I bought a crazy gaming notebook instead.
You may have heard of it....the ... EXECUTIONER" with flamboyant dancing reeking in the posts...

next discussion, alienware or killer?
"ODACHI, huh?
I think it is time for a new toy! heehee

I am just trying to get all these new systems up

Mark, quit tempting me with your badass notebooks.
A few more and i'll be in the poor house..."

Basically it's a site that truly seems to have been designed to pump K|N... and I love how in "improving air flow" ... um, I saw photos... the improvement? Drill more holes into the case. Oh, that's innovation. Granted, you drill where it's super hot, but no one is at all concerned about all the gunk that can get in a case when it's been hole punched all over? It's just very weird that a 17" case is... vented in such a non-traditional way. Not a bad thing, just... did Clevo screw up so bad? He claims that the designers at Clevo never actually use the thing and therefore put vents ... all over the place, including the underside (where he put more holes). The logic between squees of fankids sort of got lost. He even insulted his own ODM... oofah.

Incidentally, a more recent thread on there references "ANOTHER K|N FIRST!" with him claiming he was the first to offer a dual core, a core 2 duo, a santa rosa platform, and a quad core notebook (of anyone, ever in the whole world)... so he posts this major new first... gets people excited... then says "oh, it doesn't work on Santa Rosa, bummer" and people are still asking when it will get released and will it work... and he has to be kinda subdued (for him) and mention it's not gonna happen, that "Intel burned us again" lol!!! I feel burned, man. I'm not even in Black Rock City yet, though.

There's more to this story... the browsing of guruforgaming (that K|N links to religiously) was actually secondary to me researching ALL the clevo retailers for my own little self this last week with the new releases. Interesting changes from old patterns...

I actually had contacted K|N (and others, too) about various differences in the configs, in prices... in his case, I stuck to the main killer difference: WHY THE HUGE PRICE DIFF for the basics? Sure, overclocking, huge wow, but cmon, plenty of people are looking for just a LITTLE edge over xotic, perhaps, not a $1500 edge (and I'm not talking customization stuff, which I gave full credit for, I'm just talking parts with his potentially better cooling method that I can actually mod my case to do, too, if I really want... but nah, I don't feel like messing with hardware when it's not needed, especially if I needed the SAGER warranty on the 2nd year (since his warranty runs out after year 1 when the parts AND labor get paid for)... what are they going to do when they see my hole punch project? Maybe nothing... but it might just void something, too, to make something so killer. Apparently, it's not all roses with hardware since things like DVD drives aren't Sagers therefore aren't covered... hmm, kinda makes me think HP's 8710 isn't such a bad compromise. Alienware will still be there in a year... will K|N?

OK, so for the real part of my post...

I contacted K|N, got THE NASTIEST response I've EVER heard from a retailer, basically just pissing all over all the competition then saying I was entirely wrong in quoting these parts because I guess his machines weren't, on a Friday night when maybe he had a little post-Call-of-Duty testosterone angst or maybe he's a mean drunk for all I know... it was flat out mean, and I told him so... AFTER THE SECOND MESSAGE WAS SENT TO ME. I actually just pondered posting the messages here (not sure that's cool with the moderators, though?) and letting people have a look at the customer service response (mind you, I've got a couple generations of computer and mechanical engineers in my family, and I've been doing PC hardware grunt work since I was 14 years old, a long while back since I'm over twice that age now)...

Letter 1 was hate-filled and mixing up the new models, too...

Letter 2? A huge thank you note for evaluating their pricing schedule and also some vagueness on the website about models, prices, parts, etc.

They claimed they changed the price and that they are now only, though theirs is decked out with huge drives and the custom heatsink and cooler and the free shipping and all that... only $355 more than xoticpc.com...

So I somewhat excitedly go to their site and am still looking at $3600+... hmm, where's that compromise again? I don't even remember putting together a system that was $3250+ at xotic, but... maybe I was being too conservative when I managed to get something pretty gorgeous at a price point of $2100-2300 (though it is just a boring old Sager, "the only competitor to him as no one else builds them?" ...)

ugh.

Let's just say... despite the attempts at warm fuzzies, including saying they should hire me as their consultant (they can't afford my kind of precision, I'm afraid, or my digging into every dirty inch methods)... I did mention that the honey catches flies more easily than the vinegar... but also that calling powernotebooks (apparently for the 20th time, every time to himself and the mysterious vendors that all agree with him) powerweasels? Really... let's be adult... 1300+ ratings and downright beautiful scores? Someone is doing something right, like... helping people here, being INFORMED about their own technology (for crying out loud, that was kind of an insult to see me knowing more than the custom guru)...

another random detail on that forum that is tangenting... fake numbers. Bloated post counts so that they don't make his hundreds of posts seem like the big fat thumb sticking out that they are... they claimed someone had 76 posts... try 15... another had 42 or so... nope, 6. Again, yuck!

Someone sure feels like a weasel, and he's not known as a paladin...



Oh, and you can thank ME that he's gonna carry the new 15.4"... he said so himself... that it was because I convinced him to, cause before, he wasn't going to make them. I told him to take his meds more regularly. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde isn't one of my favorite stories with respect to which ones I'd prefer my encounters to mirror. I'll stick with the Montoyas and inconceivable Wesleys of the world if I'm gonna find a hero.

Just my experience. Sorry for so much length, but it's been an intriguing time getting executed. (By someone who has a banner with "testamonials" instead of testimonals... eh, I'm a perfectionist. Spell checking is just too easy to let stuff like that go to print... worse, go to photoshop AND print. oofah.

I do not actually doubt the quality of the builds being good or even the cases looking cool if that's someone's big draw... that's not what I'm questioning. I do, though, doubt the character's own shadiness. I'll go with my gut and say a big fat "pass" and stick to people who don't feel a desperate need to attack everyone in a totally uncivilized manner... people have their beefs left and right, but everyone has to have the humility to step back and remember they aren't gods in the REAL world. Oh, and according to this dude and all his personalities, Justin and Don and all the other retailers are working VERY HARD here at notebookreview.com to make sure ALL posts about K|N are removed unless derogatory... cause they are scared of the real quality, oh yes.

I also doubt that there's a $1500 difference in value between these systems for 99% of users, but by saying it's only a select few, that of course creates hype that you have to really want it, yearn, and moreover in some cases, tell mom and dad that nothing will run on ANYTHING BUT that system. Yeah, I know plenty of teenagers. They can be despicable with their manipulations :)


Random mention about the Clevo Guide: apocalypse's site has a weird username and password requirement, and what the site "says" to you is not seemingly a hint to get in... Jinco and... one other... don't appear to sell Clevo stuff anymore... one was security hardware, another was random household stuff when I checked....and I can't remember the other issue, but it was fairly minor--I was just going through them all, seeing what the new price points are for the popular builds. Probably doesn't matter since they seem to have dropped dead, but Apocalypse also has a different supposed site (that doesn't work at all) acc. to resellerratings or one of those review sites mentioned. something like apocalypsecs.com?

[E-wrecked]

Well, it seems that KillerNotebooks isn't quite what they claim to be.. they definately aren't concerned with Customer Service, or prospecting for new clients. I had a small run-in with them over the past few days. Well, it didn't turn out too pretty. I'm not going to go into a ton of detail here, but I'll post a link to the OCZ forum. Please, if you decide to visit the thread, make sure you read all of the comments made by both myself, and KN in the screenshots I provide. I may have not made the best decision to go public with it, but I also don't feel that their treatment was justified. I am disgusted, to say the least. Here's the link http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=311182

If I was being over critical, or unfair, please let me know. But, I felt as though I was doing nothing more than exposing a bad business practice for what it is.

[crosbee]

I agree ewrecked when going through buying a laptop you need to feel comfortable with who you deal with. I don't think you are being unfair it is good to hear the positives and negatives on experiences consumers witness. I have been searching for the right laptop for months. Been looking at Sager but still undecided. When contacting several companies I was rubbed the wrong way by Ibuypower and Killernotebooks. I emailed several companies in my search and was startled with the course response I received from Killernotebooks. It was outright rude & mean.

In my research I noticed that Ibuypower has allot of bad feedback on the Internet and Killernotebooks has a Unsatisfactory rating by the Better Business Bureau and noticed his company is based out of a residential household.

Always do your research before buying.... Even though I have never bought, the replies from Xotic have alway been friendly. Just have to find the right machine....... Maybe when i7 is released :)

my 2 cents

[HighHanded]

I was searching the internet for gaming notebooks in windows live search and the XoticPC came up on the bottom of the first page. I never heard of Killer Notebooks until I read about them here. I went back to the windows live search page and after going through ten pages in the gaming notebooks search I gave up not seeing anything about killer notebooks. I seatched for killer notebooks instaed and found them. Their site is unimpressive and subdued. I looked around a little and went to their forum. There is allot of information and pictures all over. I came back to say thank you for writing this post. I never would have found these guys without it. I still haven't decided on who I am going to buy from yet, but it is good to see everything out there.